9-22-2014 Florida:
Civil rights activists in Central Florida are challenging one city's new ordinance banning saggy pants, CNN affiliate WKMG reports. The NAACP is threatening a possible lawsuit over the matter.
The mayor of Ocala who initially supported the ordinance, is now asking the city council to reconsider it.
The law bans people on city property from wearing pants that fall 2-inches below the waist in a way that shows their underwear or buttocks.
People who break the law may be fined up to $500 dollars and could face jail time.
Members of the NAACP's Tallahassee branch say the ordinance unfairly targets black men.
"I'm sorry. It's going to be black males that are going to be the subject of this," Dale Landry, President of NAACP Tallahassee said.
Some supporters of the law say it promotes respect and good morals.
City Council members will have the option of voting to amend or repeal the ordinance at an upcoming meeting. ..Source.. by CBS12.com
September 22, 2014
NAACP says Florida city ordinance on 'saggy pants' targets black men
September 6, 2010
Georgia town to residents: Uphold the law -- uphold your pants
Will this cover exposed diapers? If so, Moms watch your little ones, they may be considered a sex offender... Just when you've thought you have heard it all...9-6-2010 Georgia:
(CNN) -- The town of Dublin, Georgia, is putting saggy, baggy pants in the category of indecent exposure, with violators facing fines of up to $200.
Dublin Mayor Phil Best said he plans to sign this week an amendment to the municipality's indecent exposure ordinance. The amendment, which Best plans to put into immediate effect at the City Council meeting, prohibits the wearing of pants or skirts "more than three inches below the top of the hips exposing the skin or undergarments."
"We've gotten several complaints from citizens saying the folks with britches down below their buttocks was offensive, and wasn't there something we could do about it," Best said.
The mayor said after about a year of fielding complaints, he put the city attorney to work researching how other localities have dealt with the derriere dilemma. The result was that council members decided to put exposure due to baggy clothing in the same category as masturbation, fornication and urination in public places.
Interesting, because if butt-cracking is equivalent to "masturbation, fornication and urination in public places," then butt-cracking is a crime requiring registration as a sex offender; along with showing ones diaper in public. Right?
Patrolling for offenders will be left to local police in the town about 140 miles southeast of Atlanta. Violators could face fines ranging from $25 to $200, or court-mandated community service.
"That's not our intent, we'd (rather) not fine anybody but we are prepared to," Best said.
Dublin residents are divided on the issue.
Lashika Haynes supports the push to force folks to pull up, "It's just disrespectful by showing your drawers to people," she said.
But there are those who feel that the ordinance singles out a specific group of citizens.
Jean Wolf, who volunteers with young black men in the community said, "They're the ones wearing the saggy, baggy pants."
Wolf said she believes the ordinance will lead to profiling by authorities.
Mayor Best said that accusation is "ridiculous."
"It's for white, black, man, woman. The ordinance is for everyone, and I've seen it violated by all races and sexes," Best said.
Dublin is not alone in its pull-up-the-pants campaign. Riviera Beach, Florida, and Flint, Michigan, passed bans against sagging pants in recent years, but the Riviera Beach legislation later was declared unconstitutional after a court challenge.
In the non-judicial realm, a state senator in Brooklyn, New York, announced plans earlier this year for a series of billboards featuring young men wearing low-hanging pants and the catchphrase, "Raise your pants, raise your image."
And up the road from Dublin, 62-year-old Atlantan "General" Larry Platt made it all the way to "American Idol" and became an online one-hit wonder with his song "Pants on the Ground." (Sample lyrics: "Pants on the ground, pants on the ground/looking like a fool with your pants on the ground.")
It is not lost on the mayor and the City Council in Dublin that this ordinance opens the door to what could be a pretty tricky debate over what is indecent exposure. For instance, how much is too much cleavage, and are certain tattoos indecent? The mayor seems to welcome the discussion as a natural part of the law-making process.
"I don't know a law or ordinance that doesn't stand scrutiny by the people and the court system. So time will tell. There have been plenty of laws that have gone all the way to Supreme Court," Best said.
According to the mayor, the local high school already enforces a strict dress code which puts a tight belt around students and their saggy pants, sending violators home for the day.
"It's time we all have a mutual respect for each other ... what a person does in the privacy of their home is fine," Best said. "But if I had an 8-year-old daughter, I don't think she needs to be subjected to looking at someone's rear end." ..Source.. Dina Majoli, CNN
June 6, 2009
WA- Yakima cracking down on thong underwear
If your cleavage shows too much, you might be a sex offender!
6-6-2009 Washington:
The Yakima City Council is cracking down on what an ordinance delicately refers to as "cleavage of the buttocks."
YAKIMA — The Yakima City Council is cracking down on what an ordinance delicately refers to as "cleavage of the buttocks."
Responding to a proliferation of coffee stands with baristas wearing see-through clothing, thongs and other scanty apparel, the council this week approved minor changes to the city's indecent exposure law.
The Yakima Herald-Republic reports that Mayor Dave Edler had wanted the changes under the city's adult business ordinance. But city legal staff warned that trying to place coffee stands under that law could lead to legal challenges.
The change approved by the council means that anyone in public wearing see-through apparel, a thong or a G-string — regardless of whether they are working at a coffee stand — could be prosecuted for a misdemeanor violation. ..Source.. by Yakima City Council
November 14, 2008
Saggy pants police will go wild over the new fad in jeans
11-14-2008 National:
Super Sexy Bikini Pants Combine Low-cut Jeans with a String Bikini
These outrageously sexy bikini pants from Sanna's Brazil Fashion, a Japanese clothing company, blur the line between blue jeans and a string bikini. And you know what? I'm all right with that!
Low-riding blue jeans are a fashion trend that seems to have long legs - pun definitely intended. The only question is, how low can they go? Sanna's Brazil Fashion seems to have given us the answer with their new line of bikini pants that combine ultra low-cut blue jeans with an integrated string bikini bottom. The effect is stunning... super sexy yet extremely flattering, and without showing more skin than a normal bikini displays.
For the rest of the story by Steve Levenstein
October 4, 2008
MI- Saggy Pants Ban Proposed For Pontiac Schools
10-4-2008 Michigan:
PONTIAC, Mich. -- A new dress code policy has been proposed that, if accepted, would ban wearing saggy pants in Pontiac schools.
The new policy would require a belt to be worn with any pants that do not stay up at the waist on their own. Belt buckles and large metal decorative belts, however, will not be allowed.
-OK, I'm confused, no belt buckles, won't that result in saggy pants?
The updated dress code for Pontiac schools would also require that all shirts have a collar and be tucked inside the student's pants. All shoes will need to be worn at all times and must have a back or a strap around the heel.
Pontiac school trustees also hope to pass an anti-bullying and harassment policy that would ban verbally or physically abusive behavior. Harassment and bullying includes any hurtful verbal, graphic or physical act that is perceived as being motivated by a person's race, color, religion, sexual orientation or disability.
The policies are to help the schools have safer school environments.
A meeting is to be held within the next few weeks to discuss the new policies. Then a public hearing will take place in order to get input, as the trustees would like to hear from students, parents and members of the community first.
Consequences of disobeying the policies are currently being decided, although it will depend on the severity and degree of the harm of the act, as well as the age of the student. Contacting parents to bring appropriate clothes to the school, detentions and parent-student conferences are a few examples of the potential punishments. Suspensions will be the last resort.
Hats and bandanas along with any other form of head wear is prohibited from being worn within the building during regular school hours. Any head covering that involves religious expression must be cleared with administration by the parents or guardian of the student before being worn in Pontiac schools.
-Religious issues? Sounds like trouble..
Flip flops, low-cut tank tops, shirts that expose the midriff, short skirts and all shorts are not allowed at school or its extracurricular activities.
Other Michigan school districts, such as Flint, have also recently banned saggy pants. Flint police determined that wearers of saggy pants are subject to up to a year in jail and up to $500 in fines. According to Flint police, wearing pants that expose the buttock is considered indecent exposure. ..News Source.. by ClickOnDetroit
August 17, 2008
MI- Heights cracking down on saggy pants
8-17-2008 Michigan:
Showing your drawers in Muskegon Heights may earn you a kick in the pants -- or at least a monetary fine in the near future.
The Muskegon Heights City Council is considering an ordinance that would ban people from wearing sagging pants, a style that was popularized in the early 1990s by hip-hop artists.
The council recently directed Police Chief Clifton Johnson and City Manager Natasha Henderson to research what types of ordinances other urban cities have adopted.
"We're trying to be proactive," said Mayor Darrell Paige. "We just think we have to do something about it."
Many young people wear beltless baggy pants that frequently droop below butt level. The fashion has become popular in suburban and rural areas around the country, prompting many schools to enact rules prohibiting it.
The Muskegon Heights City Council, which has made improving the city's image a top priority, want to go one step further. Some council members view the sagging pants look as "disrespectful" and "indecent."
They have not yet discussed any specific details of what the city's ordinance might entail. There also has been no discussion on how a dress code ordinance would be enforced, or what the penalties would be for violating the ordinance.
Similar dress code ordinances already have been adopted in communities throughout the country. Penalties vary by community. In the Chicago suburb of Lynwood, $25 fines are issued for anyone showing three inches or more of their underwear in public. In Flint, offenders can be slapped with up to a $500 fine and one year in jail.
However, the legality of some of those efforts has come under fire by civil rights groups, such as the American Civil Liberties Union. The ACLU, which is challeging some of the ordinances that already have been enacted, argue that the measures are illegal and racist in nature because it targets African-American youths.
Paige and other council members say their purpose isn't for the city to become style police or infringe on people's civil rights. But, they do believe lines of acceptable behavior must be drawn, especially for youths. Walking around in public with your pants down around your knees is not appropriate, they say.
"It may be because we're getting older," said Paige, recalling the fashion styles of his generation. "I can remember my mom didn't like the big apple hats that we used to wear, or the high-heeled shoes and open-buttoned shirts."
There are many urban myths about the origins of the sagging pants style.
One of the most common myths is that prisoners would wear their pants low to signal that they were welcome to sexual advances.
That's not quite true, according to many criminal justice experts. Sagging pants originated from prison, because prisoners were often given ill-fitting uniforms and weren't allowed to have belts because they could be used to injure themselves or others.
Not everyone thinks the city of Muskegon Heights should adopt a dress code ordinance. Harold Wright, a downtown business owner, believes the city has more pressing problems to worry about.
"I don't think the council needs to waste their time passing an ordinance," said Wright, owner of Rite-Way Communications, 60 E. Broadway Ave. "I think that there's a lot of things on the books that already aren't being enforced -- like loitering."
Wright thinks a better strategy is for the city to work with downtown business leaders to address the problem. A longtime respected community leader, Wright is not shy about asking people to leave his store if they aren't dressed appropriately.
Wright, who sells cell phones and music at his store, attracts many young customers. But, if they come into his store with sagging pants, he will pull them aside and explain that they need to pull up their pants or leave his store.
"I talk to them in a respectful manner," said Wright. "I explain to them that Mr. Wright doesn't like to see that, so please pull up your pants.
"I believe we as a community need to work together. If we keep explaining to them that showing your butt is disrespectful to women and everyone else -- I think after awhile they'll start understanding."
Several Muskegon Heights youths, who did not want to be named, said they wear sagging pants because it's the popular style of their generation. Hip-hoppers and skaters have made the look "cool," they said.
"I used to do it when I was younger," said Larry Harris, a 24-year-old Muskegon Heights resident. "It was the style. I felt like, "nobody can tell you how to dress."
Harris said he stopped wearing sagging pants about three years ago. He just outgrew the style, he said. Plus, his "granny," who raised him, kept badgering him about it.
"My granny didn't like that stuff," said Harris. "And, I have respect for my elders."
Thomas Smith, owner of Urban Apparel, 75 W. Broadway, said although he doesn't like the sagging pants look, he believes it's a "personal preference."
"I don't understand what they get out of it," said Thomas. "It looks ridiculous. I don't like to see their dirty underwear." ..News Source.. by Federico Martinez | The Muskegon Chronicle
July 25, 2008
MI- ACLU threatens suit if Flint keeps officers quiet (On Saggy Pants Issue)
7-25-2008 Michigan:
FLINT, Mich. - The American Civil Liberties Union on Thursday threatened to sue the city if it doesn't halt a policy that prevents police officers from speaking with the media.
The ACLU's Michigan chapter sent a letter to interim Flint Police Chief David Dicks on behalf of two officers who were disciplined. They publicly criticized the appointments of Dicks as chief, his father, Richard, as super chief overseeing police and fire departments, and Deputy Police Chief David Forystek, the Detroit Free Press reported Thursday.
The organization is representing Sgt. Rick Hetherington, who was suspended for two days for talking to The Flint Journal, and Lt. David Winch, who was verbally warned after speaking to the newspaper, the Journal reported Thursday.
"Police officers do not lose their freedom of speech once they join the force," Michael J. Steinberg, ACLU of Michigan's legal director wrote. "Flint police officers have a right to speak out on matters of public concern and Flint residents have a right to know what's going on in their community."
A message was left by The Associated Press Thursday afternoon for Dicks.
The ACLU has demanded that the city rescind the ban, remove all discipline and provide the officers "adequate compensation." The organization said it would pursue the case in federal court if it was not resolved by Aug. 4.
The ACLU also recently sent a letter to the city expressing its concerns about the chief's crackdown on sagging pants. Under the order, anyone with exposed buttocks could be arrested on a misdemeanor charge of being a disorderly person, punishable by up to a $500 fine and three months in jail.
The organization says the city's pants ordinance is unconstitutional and has also threatened a lawsuit in that matter. ..News Source.. by Chicago Tribune
July 22, 2008
MI- ACLU prepares to take cops to court over saggy pants
7-22-2008 Michigan:
Saggers unite: The ACLU wants to talk.
With Flint Police Chief David Dicks refusing to back down from his anti-saggy-pants policy, the ACLU is asking people to come forward for a possible lawsuit.
“We are confident that young men in Flint will contact us now that the chief has announced that he wont budge,” said Michael J. Steinberg, legal director of the state ACLU. “If they do, we’ll sue.”
The ACLU had said today would be the deadline for Dicks to halt the stopping and searching of individuals with low-riding pants exposing underwear or bare bottoms.
Dicks said he has no plans to change anything.
“We’re going to keep doing what we’re doing,” he said today. “I think people are catching on and pulling up their pants. I’m getting a lot of support from local parents and churches and the mayor said he supports me one thousand percent.”
Dicks said wearing pants below the waist is a crime -- a violation of the city's disorderly conduct ordinance -- and can give police probable cause to search saggers for other crimes, such as weapon or drug possession. He said exposing the buttocks is indecent exposure.
Both crimes are misdemeanors punishable by 93 days to a year in jail and fines up to $500, Dicks said.
Meanwhile, other cities are covering their behinds as well.
The suburban Chicago village of Lynwood, Ill., passed an ordinance last week that states people caught exposing three inches or more of their underwear will be fined $35.
“We need to stop this offensive and unsanitary behavior,” said Lynwood Mayor Eugene Williams. “We have to be big enough to take the heat.”
Williams said he salutes Chief Dicks.
“Tell the chief in Flint that I support him,” he said. “And tell him to hang in there.”
In Riviera Beach, Fla., more than 70 percent of the community’s voters approved a measure in March that imposes a series of penalties on saggers with each violation. First-time violators face a $150 fine. Third-time offenders could do jail time.
The crackdown has sparked national, even international, debate on what constitutes freedom of expression.
Terry Girard, an English teacher at Lawrence Technical University in Southfield, said she belongs to the ACLU, but can’t back them on the saggy pants.
“I think the ACLU is dead wrong here,” she said. “I see too many kids walking around like this. I don’t want to see someone’s underwear, and I definitely don’t want to see their bare butts either.”
Catherine Meza, a teacher at Flint Community Schools, said the city has too many other problems to worry about saggers. “New Years Eve — you have to leave town because of all the gunfire,” she said. “People pretty much do what they want, and the only reason it isn’t worse is because the population is draining away.” ..News Source.. by BEN SCHMITT
July 20, 2008
FL- Florida Man Shoots Low Rider (Saggy Pants)
6-24-2008 Florida:
Cops: 18-year-old plugged after being told to pull up saggy pants
JUNE 24--A Florida man shot a teenager after ordering him to pull up his sagging pants, according to police. John Constantin, 54, was arrested Saturday afternoon after allegedly shooting David Mitchell, 18, once in the stomach. According to witnesses, Constantin directed Mitchell to pull up his pants while he followed the teenager in the courtyard of his Jacksonville apartment building.
After Mitchell asked Constantin why he was trailing him, the pair began to scuffle. During the confrontation, Constantin shot Mitchell with a small caliber handgun (the teen was later released from the hospital with the slug still in his side).
Constantin, who works at Light Bulb Depot, told cops that he ordered Mitchell to pull his pants up, "but then the victim assaulted him." As he was being transported to jail, Constantin told a cop, "This is bullshit" and that, "an innocent man is going to jail just because I was just protecting myself."
Constantin, pictured in the mug shot at right, was charged with aggravated battery with a deadly weapon, a felony. He may also face a drug rap pending lab results on a "white rock like substance" that field tested positive for crack cocaine. ..News Source.. by The Smoking Gun
FL- Riviera Beach can now enforce its no-saggy-pants law
7-20-2008 Florida:
RIVIERA BEACH — Police can now write up people who fail to pull up in order to make them pay up.
The city council voted unanimously Wednesday night to close a legal loophole that kept police from enforcing the city's saggy pants law.
The measure hasn't been enforced since March, when voters approved the law because it lacked an ordinance number, said Rose Anne Brown, the city's spokeswoman. Police need to reference the ordinance number when writing citations to violators, Brown said.
"It's a technicality, but it's what's needed in order to make the citation legal," Brown said.
Mayor Thomas Masters pushed for the saggy pants law. The problem in part occurred as a result of how Masters went about getting the ordinance on the books.
Instead of bringing the ordinance before the city council, Masters opted to get voter approval by collecting 4,769 signatures to put the measure on the ballot. By doing so, the law never received an ordinance number because it went straight to the ballot. In March, it won 72 percent of the vote, despite a late push by critics who opposed the measure's jail provision.
Masters said that he was pleased that the law can now be enforced.
Since it was passed, he has been educating youngsters and parents in the community about its impact.
"I hope that young people will take the time to come into compliance," Masters said. "The bottom line is if you pull up your pants before you leave home, you won't have a problem."
Under the law, anyone wearing saggy pants that expose underwear or skin is deemed a violator. The first offense carries a $150 fine or community service; a second offense prompts a $300 fine or more community service.
Habitual offenders, those with three or more violations, face a possible penalty of spending up to 60 days in jail.
The saggy pants fad surfaced in jail, when juvenile offenders wore overly large prison garb that sagged, exposing their underwear. It later became a fashion statement among rappers and remains popular in urban communities across the country.
The fashion fad cause a backlash among adults who felt exposing one's boxers or thong was unfashionable and offensive. The result has been cities, like Riviera Beach, passing laws banning the practice. The city joins Opa-locka in Miami-Dade County and several Southern towns with "pull up your pants" laws. The Atlanta school district also has a similar measure. ..News Source.. by WILLIAM COOPER JR., Palm Beach Post Staff Writer
IL- In Lynwood, baggy fashion butts up against commerce
7-20-2008 Illinois:
South suburb's officials say a law limiting underwear exposure will draw investors, but some think the rule is racist
If Lynwood's economy is surviving by the seat of its pants, the town at least wants its bottoms properly covered.
The leaders of the small south suburb, with their eyes on attracting development to Lynwood, last week passed an ordinance stating that people caught exposing 3 inches or more of their underwear will be fined $25—the first Chicago-area town to crack down on low-slung pants.
Since the first sullen cave-teen glared at his father over not being able to use the wheel, young people have been finding new ways to irritate the adults in their lives. In recent years, for some, it's meant lowering their pants and exposing all manner of boxer shorts in public.
The adults are fighting back. Towns across the country have banned pants that hang below the waist, with the price of immodesty ranging greatly. This week, it was the talk of the town in Riviera Beach, Fla., where the fine is $150, and in Flint, Mich., where offenders can be fined $500 and face time in the slammer.
Lynwood Mayor Eugene Williams says he cannot attract major retailers when young men are parading around half-dressed.
Jonathan Gammon knows all about the sagging pants of Lynwood. He sees teens pass his barbershop with jeans so low he wonders how they walk without tripping.
He knows they're not bad kids, because he cuts their hair. They're just copying the style they see in Chicago and in rap-music videos, he figures. Gammon was relieved to hear his town banned low-hanging pants.
"I don't want to see their drawers, personally," he said. "It probably would scare people from out of town."
But some argue the law goes too far in mandating fashion choices, and the American Civil Liberties Union charged the ordinance targets young men of color.
In fact the fashion statement has echoed across racial lines. James Pinkerton, 15, who is white and was shopping at Orland Square Mall on Friday with his great-uncle Bob, 53, scoffed at government attempts to censor appearance.
"I don't think they should be focused on that," said the teen, dressed in black baggy shorts with hanging pocket chains. "I think they should be focusing on more important things."
His uncle, however, supported Lynwood's initiative, and admitted to keeping tabs on the pant sizes his nephew sought to wear.
"I always take him out to buy pants and he says, 'They fit me,' and I say, 'Let me see your waist,' " he said.
Experts note that pushing boundaries is natural for teens searching for their own identities. But they say today's youths are not the rebellious, long-haired hippies of the past. Teenagers today are used to special rules: limits on the hours they can drive without supervision; where they can talk on cell phones; or even on their visits to tanning salons or malls.
"Today's teenagers are . . . fairly comfortable with the rules and guidelines that society has put into place, as long as they get to color in between the lines as they see fit," said Michael Wood, vice president of TRU, a Northbrook-based research firm specializing in young adults. "We find it very interesting when adults feel threatened by what they see demonstrated by young people. Oftentimes, we have to remind them that you can't judge what's on the inside based on what they're wearing on the outside."
In Lynwood, a town of about 8,000 30 miles south of Chicago, officials felt the ordinance was needed to prove to outsiders it is a place worth investing in. The mayor says he received more positive reactions than negative to the ordinance, especially in the African-American community. He's even talked with other south suburban leaders about adopting the law in their towns.
"I know I'm going out on a limb by doing this," he said. "It's a hot topic right now—everyone wants to talk about it, but I really hope it does some good."
Even some youngsters in Lynwood agree with the ban. While Chris Sowell, 10, was getting his hair cut at JC's Barber Shop on Friday, the men seated around him discussed the ban. Chris knows better than to walk around his house with sagging pants.
"You might think you're a gangster trying to be like the people in Chicago," he said. "I know I'll get in trouble with my mom."
Others would welcome a ban. Outside Orland Square, Marcelino Rosas, 17, lifted up his oversize T-shirt to reveal baggy pants firmly belted above his drawers.
"I think it's offensive," he said of bared underwear. "I don't like it. It's so ridiculous."
But Joe Klomes, 21, who sported half-inch holes in his ears to accommodate oversize earrings and pointed to his body modification as his freedom of choice, said: "I don't really know if they have a right to infringe on somebody's personal style. . . . If they want to clean up their image, they should spend money to fix up the streets, parks, planting trees, making it nicer that way.
"If you're going to be shallow enough to go after clothing, I don't know. It seems a little bit racist."
ACLU spokesman Edwin Yohnka agreed, saying he's interested to see how evenly the ordinance will be applied.
"One of our concerns is that we know who wears baggy pants; it appears these are efforts to have more police interaction with young men of color," he said. "Let's see if they start pulling over plumbers for their pants." ..News Source.. by Emma Graves Fitzsimmons and Erika Slife | Chicago Tribune reporters
July 14, 2008
MI- ACLU chastises Flint chief over saggy pants arrests
See earlier stories here and here
7-14-2008 Michigan:
Flint residents who like to wear their pants in the latest “sagging” fashion shouldn’t have to pull up their trousers to stay out of jail, according to the ACLU of Michigan.
The right to wear sagging pants is protected by the constitution, the American Civil Liberties Union of Michigan argued in a letter it sent Monday to Flint Police Chief David R. Dicks, who has ordered officers top start arresting people wearing saggy pants that expose skivvies, boxer shorts or bare bottoms.
The letter called for an immediate end to the stopping and searching of individuals with low-riding pants and a response from the police department by next Monday. If not, the ACLU said it will take the issue to federal court.
The ACLU said the new policy gives police authority to conduct unconstitutional search and seizures, promotes racial profiling, violates due process and interferes with an individuals’ freedom to express themselves in their appearance.
“Given that Flint has one of the highest crime rates in the country, you would think the police chief would be fighting crime instead of the latest fashion fad,” said Michael J. Steinberg, legal director of the ACLU of Michigan, who composed the letter over the weekend.
Dicks did not return multiple calls Monday seeking comment, and Flint Mayor Donald J. Williamson said he had no comment on the sagging pants policy and that he did not comment on lawsuits.
In an interview last week with the Free Press, Dicks said wearing pants below the waist is a crime — a violation of the city’s disorderly conduct ordinance — and can give police probable cause to search saggers for other crimes, such as weapon and drug possession.
Individuals would be subject to search, and depending on how low the pants sit, punishment of up to 93 days in jail and a $500 fine.
“It is not the job of the police officer to enforce his idea of what dress is appropriate when no crime is being committed,” Steinberg contended.
Steinberg said the ACLU would prefer not to go to court, but was prepared to do so.
“People should be concerned when police officers go up to individuals and lift up their shirts to expose young men’s boxer shorts and claim that they’re acting indecent,” Steinberg said, citing a Free Press video report last week on the enforcement. “There’s nothing different between that and lifting up women’s skirts to expose their underwear and charging them with indecent exposure.”
He cited exposed bra straps or slips as comparable fashion faux pas that would not warrant police searches and citations.
“It’s another matter if you can see their naked buttocks…but it is not a crime to wear sagging pants where boxers are exposed.” ..News Source.. by
July 9, 2008
MI- Flint cops crack down on sagging pants
Indecent exposure (see inset) is MCL 750.335a and can be a listed sex offense: MCL 28.722 (e) "Listed offense" means any of the following: (iii) A violation of section 750.335a(2)(b) of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.335a, if that individual was previously convicted of violating section 335a of that act. Accordingly, can lead to being listed on the sex offender registry.
7-9-2008 Michigan:
Violators of ordinance could face fines -- even jail time
Flint residents now have to watch their butts because Police Chief David Dicks is on the lookout.
Dicks, who took over the department last month on an interim basis, announced that his officers would start arresting people wearing saggy pants that expose skivvies, boxer shorts or bare bottoms.
"Some people call it a fad," Dicks told the Free Press this week while patrolling the streets of Flint. "But I believe it's a national nuisance. It is indecent and thus it is indecent exposure, which has been on the books for years."
On June 27, the chief issued a departmental memorandum telling officers: "This immoral self expression goes beyond freedom of expression."
The crime, he says, is disorderly conduct or indecent exposure, both misdemeanors punishable by 93 days to a year in jail and/or fines up to $500.
Dicks, 41, broke down his interpretation of the laws as such: Pants pulled completely below the buttocks with underwear showing is disorderly conduct; saggy pants with skin of the buttocks showing is indecent exposure, and saggy pants, not completely below the buttocks, with underwear exposed results in a warning.
The American Civil Liberties Union is already scrutinizing the enforcement, something Dicks fully expected. But he said he's not backing down until the pants stop falling down.
Still, as of Tuesday, no one had been arrested for saggy pants.
"We want to put the word out before we take aggressive action," he said.
On Monday, a Free Press reporter and videographer rode with the chief as he confronted teens sporting the sag look. He issued verbal warnings to several people and said the style also gives police probable cause to search those wearing no-rise jeans.
As he drove through Flint's north and east sides, he flipped on the flashing lights of his departmental-issued Chevy Tahoe as he stopped a shirtless young man walking in the streets with saggy shorts and exposed boxers.
"Did you hear about the law?" the chief asked.
"I heard about it the other day," the man responded.
"I'm gonna issue a warning. I need you to get a belt because it's indecent exposure," the chief said to the twentysomething man on Delaware and N. Franklin.
During another stop, Dicks marveled at the steps a man took to wear his pants low.
"This guy had a belt on but he'd rather have his belt on around his thighs than above his waist," he said. "If no one tells him it's against the law, he'll never know."
Different opinions
Flint is often called one of the most violent cities in America, however in recent years, it has seen a drop in homicides.
A city of about 120,000, dwindling jobs and a dwindling population has left an aging, retired sector, older blue collar workers, a few middle-age professionals and youths. And depending on who you talk to about sagging, those within each generation don't necessarily put their pants on the same way.
"If I pay for my pants, I should be able to wear them how I want to," said 16-year-old Montez Phifer, taking a break from playing hoops in the city Monday. "Everyone thinks it's gangster, but it's a fashion. Nothing more."
His friend, Lorenzo Johnson, 14, said his mother warned him about the chief's stance on sagging.
"I pulled them up to respect her," he said. "When she left I pulled them back down."
Another friend Senita Abrams, 18, said: "I think it's cute when boys sag."
Down the street, 32-year-old Saneka Nichols weighed in.
"The sagging is out of control," she said. "It went from a style to a disruption. The chief has a good idea. I'm not saying people should go to jail, but maybe they should do community service.
"If you don't want to pick up your pants, pick up for the neighborhood. How's that sound?"
Greg Gibbs, a lawyer and chair of the ACLU Flint chapter, said the crackdown sounds like a "vast waste of resources."
"We are concerned that the enforcement of the chief's memo may lead to some constitutional violations on a case-by-case basis due to the failure of his memo to define what constitutes indecent exposure," Gibbs said. "From a First Amendment standpoint, I still have to crack the books to find out what the courts have said on this issue."
Flint's not the first city to take a look at policing the exposure of underwear. Pontiac, Auburn Hills, Atlanta and cities across the nation have debated the issue. But Dicks makes the assertion that wearing pants below the waist can give police probable cause to search saggers for other crimes, such as weapon and drug possession. He said because sagging is a crime, it presents probable cause for police to search saggers.
The sagging style
Dan Henson knows all about the style of sagging. He's a manager at Mr. Alan's clothing store in Hamtramck and a former sagger himself. He said customers frequently come in to buy large-fitting pants that sag.
"I stopped when I was around 21," he said of wearing his pants low. "But this style has been around for a long time. I think the rap videos and music industry have a lot to do with it. I don't think this style is going anywhere."
Michigan ACLU Executive Director Kary Moss said race could become an issue if the chief aggressively enforces the law.
"We will wait and see if this new policy is enforced before we decide to take action.," she said in a statement. "We will be concerned if the policy disproportionately affects African Americans."
Dicks also scoffed at any suggestions that any enforcement unfairly targets black men and teens.
"This is not a black issue. This is an issue that's all walks of life," said Dicks, who is black. "Many people from different ethnic backgrounds and races are doing this fad." ..News Source.. by BEN SCHMITT
June 27, 2008
MI- Flint cracks down on sagging pants
Is this the next group to be chosen as sex offenders?
6-27-2008 Michigan:
FLINT -- Flint's new police chief wants to crack down on sagging pants that expose too much skin.
This immoral 'self expression' goes beyond freedom of expression; it rises to the crime of indecent exposure/disorderly persons," interim Chief David Dicks said in a memo today.
Under the order, anyone with exposed buttocks could be arrested on a misdemeanor charge of being a disorderly person, punishable by up to a $500 fine and three months in jail.
Dicks, who was appointed to his position June 2, said in the memo the measure was prompted by "a significant number of complaints from citizens."
But some are concerned that stepped-up enforcement could violate the Constitution or disproportionately target African-American men.
The American Civil Liberties Union has opposed clothing restrictions in other cities.
Greg Gibbs, an ACLU attorney, told the Flint Journal he plans to research the issue to see whether the crackdown violates the right to free expression.
Frances Gilcreast, president of the Flint chapter of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, said she is "not interested in looking at anyone's underwear."
But, she said, she is worried police are focusing on a loose-fitting style favored by some young black men.
"My concern is how (the policy) will be applied equitably," she said.
Flint Police Officers Association President Keith Speer said that in the past, officers have given out warnings for exposed skin and arrested those with their entire rear exposed. He said he doesn't anticipate any significant changes in how police will enforce the law. ..News Source.. by Detroit Free Press
